Now and then, I receive a comment on my So, What’s The Lord Saying Or Doing daily posts that touches me in one way or another. But the comment by francisdrakeprivateer on 1/1/2009 knocked my socks off. Read it for yourself:
“The church is an institution that satan has set up to prevent christians doing the work of the Lord.”
This is a prophetic word that the Lord gave me about 10 years ago at a spirit filled meeting of christian businessmen. I was simply asked by a friend for a definition of the church, and these words came out of my mouth. I was as shocked as he was to hear it with such clarity, but we both instantly knew that it was the rhema word of the Lord.
Whenever I mention it now, the response is either anger and offense, or a recognition of what the words actually say.
The clue is in the word “institution”. Sadly this includes virtually all churches. The church of Jesus Christ was an organism. It has been converted into an institutional organisation with an earthly system of heirarchical government. This gives rise to the idolatry of, “I must depend on (or obey) my pastor”. This attitude cuts us off from clear hearing of what the Lord calls us to do.
There is no biblical precedent to expect one man to give direction to a whole load of other believers as to what they are personally called by God to do.
Placing another man between us and God is abdication and the spirit of antichrist.
Anti christ means “another anointed”. Another very telling word for pastor is “vicar,” still used in many churches. This word is quite open about its meaning, “substitute”. The pastor or vicar is a substitute for God.Therefore this Satan inspired institution has been highly successful at emasculating the saints.
So, what are your thoughts on francisdrakeprivateer’s words?
Larry Who 
It is possible for a pastor to be a substitute for God. It could happen. But that’s not the case for most churches and church members. The role of the pastor is to facilitate a person’s relationship with God. As a pastor, it bothers me that pastoring is held by some in such low regard. In a larger sense, while the church has some problems it simply does too much good to be the work of Satan. Any church that has people coming to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ must in fact have the Spirit of God at work. Satan wouldn’t lead a person to Christ. Jesus himselft was accused of receiving his miraculous power to cast out demons from Satan. His response: that Satan would not cast out Satan. “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”
There you go again putting all Christians under one Christianity Umbrella. The isms, schisms, titles, and divisions are not one. However, each faction has individuals in them who are genuine believers not influenced by satan.
The key to the institutionalization of the church is WHEN and that was the formalization in the 400’s which founded Catholicism plain and simple. Up to that point, believers were persecuted. See Fox’s Book of Martyrs. After the pagans persecuted believers, the new official and political land owning Catholics persecuted the believers who wouldn’t adopt saint worship, Mary worship, priests “turning” communion into Jesus’ literal body and blood and the list goes on. “Vicar” is identified with the Church of England.
The true Church, the Body of Christ, is alive and well within and without buildings and not associated with Satan, thank you very much. Include me with the deeply offended when you lump ME in with the satanic institution you self-righteously generalize because I worship weekly with other believers in a group in a building under the leadership of a preacher who does not fail to encourage us weekly to take the gospel to all we meet in our daily walk.
See also Paul’s instruction and advice to Timothy in his LEADING of a GROUP of believers.
I can only assume you are addressing the old line locked-in-the-box, headquartered, heavily perfumed, social Christians. There are many in between them and me.
Note also that the Bible places value on and encourages fellowship. To set oneself in righteous isolation is in and of itself pride (I don’t need those hypocrites) and can be a dangerous route to take.
clark and jane,
I agree with francisdrakeprivateer’s prophetic word, especially, “The church is an institution that satan has set up to prevent Christians [from] doing the work of the Lord.”
Am I against the Church? No. I’m for the Church of Jesus Christ, the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ.
Am I against the callings of the Lord, such as apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher? No. I’m for every calling to be the best that he or she can be so that the Kingdom of God can be advanced here on earth.
francisdrakeprivateer used the word institution to describe what I would call a traditional church which is a part of the traditional church system. This includes all churches who have a pastor or elder as a CEO-type leader, maybe a few elders, maybe a few deacons, but most important of all, there is a definite separation between the leaders called clergy and the lay-people who sit in the pews.
Now, where in the Bible can you find examples of traditional churches? In the New Testament – NO. In the Old Testament – Yes.
But just because today’s traditional churches are patterned after the Old Testament Temple, does that mean that Satan has crept in and helped to build the traditional church? If Satan is the one who kills, steals, and destroys, then, the answer is definitely “yes”. Why? Because the royal priesthood of each believer has been stolen and usurped.
Now, do I think there will be problems between people that believe like francisdrakeprivateer and I do -and- those that endorse the traditional church system? Oh my yes! In fact, it may end up being a religious civil war.
The early church set up deacons from day one. Paul instructs Timothy on how to deal with his congregation. Paul and his converts established churches all over the known world with deacons and leaders. How do you figure that there were no examples of church organization in the new testament?
The enemy did not set up the institution, Paul extended the synagogue to the gentile world i.e. sit together and worship and listen to an annointed leader speak through the foolishness of preaching, in some cases long enough for a kid to fall asleep and fall out of a window to his death so he has to raised from the dead and listen to more preaching.
Our “institution” problem came about when satan joined the church after he realized he couldn’t kill it, twisted it into idolatry and works of flesh through Rome, and set up popes and monks — all distanced from interaction with the people and drunk with power and control. It was no longer Christianity until the reformers movement grew. They also were persecuted by the state established church in Rome.
All you say about gifts and callings are true. However, to unleash every ambitious new Christian to function without study, and without the support, influence, and mentoring of fellowship with mature Christians is ridiculous and dangerous.
You of all people know how much study and prayer and sheer time it takes to mature. Now I think I see what I mentioned before — isolationism. Tell me it ain’t so.
Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Oh, wait. I see satan’s favorite tool — the wedge. He loves seeing God’s people argue and wrangle over the obvious. Here’s the obvious—
The great diversity of personalities that composes the so called institution needs preachers, teachers, mentors, older women to train the younger, prayer warriors — who may be separated from the group for long periods of time — prophets, etc. Oh! Did I just mention some of the gifts?
All of the above paragraph is in the new testament. From me to you, Larry, get over your experiences with church groups. Toss the grudges. God has a special call for you which you all too well know about and are doing. Why do you think you have to reshape everybody else into your mold? Paul speaks of the body of many parts. All eyes is non-functional, as is all livers, all noses, all speens, all ears.
This is basic Sunday School stuff. Tell me you’re just trying to stir the pot and then stop it and get down to more useful stuff like spreading the gospel and edifying the Body.
Jane, Jane, Jane,
Am I trying to stir up the pot? Of course, I am.
Am I isolated? Yes, but at times, so were Paul, Elijah, John the Baptist, David, Moses, Jesus, and others throughout the Bible.
Do I believe that all pastors are insincere people? Of course not. 98.6% of pastors are men or women who want to do their best for God and for their congregations.
Do I care about Christians who are in the traditional church system? Of course I do. But to be honest, I have had to go through miles and miles of bad roads, that only the Lord, my wife, and me know about, wherein I have had (and c0ntinue to have) my judgmental attitudes worked on and smashed -like a potato – by God.
Do I have grudges against pastors or churches? Actually, I don’t. Fortunately, I have been a part of great congregations with great leaders. Now, have I ever been hurt by a pastor or a member of a traditional church? Of course, almost everyone has. It doesn’t take much for this to happen, right? Maybe a look, a word, a correction, or whatever. Sadly, I have flesh just like other Christians. But I can honestly say, that there is no pastor, leader, or traditional church member that I would not go out of my way to help.
But take a moment to look back over the different moves of God since the Reformation. What do they all have in common? They help set believers free so that they will know Jesus in a better way through a new revelation.
What else do these moves of God have in common? They always blast apart traditions and cause older believers to be upset.
So, what usually happens with new moves of God? Fringe believers and new believers hop aboard at first. Others join in later.
Last but not least, Jane, how far along are you on your first book? Shouldn’t this be your year?
Why on earth would I need a pastor to facilitate my relationship with God. Ok I concede that a brand new believer may need help to start walking, but that is the role of the body at work, not just leadership.
However if a believer is still needing the pastor to facilitate his relationship for the months and years continuing beyond that time, I can only say that the pastor has been singularly unsuccessful and should look for another role.
The believer himself needs to grow up into what God has for him, and stop suckling from the pastor!
Churches are highly successful at creating a dependancy culture in exactly the same manner as the welfare systems of nations. As a Brit living in a failed Welfare State system I can vouch for the way it cripples people’s maturity.
The Welfare State creates infantilism!
Infantilism is another way to describe the dependancy culture. The system removes personal responsibility from the individual and puts it in the hands of the state, or similarly in the leadership of the church. In both institutions the individual ceases to function as a mature contributor.
Sadly with your election the USA seems to be set on following the UK in this disastrous policy.
Going back to the article. The prophetic word said that Satan set up the institution, not that the people where evil. It is a system that mitigates against the saints achieving maturity. They spend there whole lives listening to the man at the front in the same manner as the theatre. They can join the singing etc, but rarely do they function from their spirit in giving a word etc.
I would ask those advocates of the formal church system to answer the following rather than attacking my challenge.-
Where is 1 Cor 14 v26 in all this.
Then how is it, brothers? When you come together, each one of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be for edifying.
This is far from what we see today in the churches.
The institutionalisation of the church did not start in the 400s but in the Garden of Eden. This was when Satan said “Did God really say”
This is the voice that casts doubt upon the voice of the Spirit, and upon the word of scripture. It casts sufficient doubt to cause people to find a more secure method, a method of doing the things of God in a more recognisable human way.